[00:00:00] Hello, thank you for joining us. My name is Richard Gerver. I've worked in education, human development, and leadership for the last three decades. In this podcast series, I'm chatting to a number of Diverse, remarkable people from all kinds of different fields, from business, from sports, the arts, education, philanthropy.

And what we're looking to do is to explore what our young people and our organizations really need in order to thrive, not just to survive in times of increasing change and uncertainty. Welcome to The Learning Bridge.

Today my guest is Oh, he's fabulous. He's uh, he's somebody I've known for a very long time.

He works in a field that I think many young men and women, boys and girls, would [00:01:00] dream of being able to work in. And also, he's the first person I've interviewed so far in this series who comes from the high pressured world of professional sport. My guest is Edu Rubio, and Edu, first of all, thank you so much for joining us, and if I can, I'm going to ask you to tell our listeners just a little bit about you, what you do, and how you got to where you got to.

Uh, thank you so much, Richard. It's a pleasure to be with you and all your listeners. Um, hopefully this podcast will obviously benefit loads of people out there. And that's the idea and the intention of obviously, you know, accepting your, invite. Not only, you know, to have a, an opportunity to have a chat with you as well, which is always a great excuse.

Edu Rubio's Journey to Coaching

but about me I grew up in Spain, always, uh, playing football, always around, uh, sport. Uh, I was very lucky to be probably in a generation where, you know, uh, Barcelona, which [00:02:00] is a city which is really, really close to my home ground, my hometown city, hosted the Olympics.

That really inspired probably, you know, my early years of education. My early years of, kind of like putting together in my own brain what I wanted to become and what I wanted to do with my life. And after a few years playing football, um, I realized that obviously I wasn't going to be playing in the Premier League.

I was actually quite decent level, like League 2 here in England, but back then in Spain, it wasn't paid a lot. So I decided to go to university. do sports science and become a coach. And I've been a coach since I've been a coach for the last 17 years, starting from grassroots. and I'm very proud of saying that.

I mean, my first job here in England was in Hampton Rangers in a grassroots club, uh, to now having the opportunity to be. Assisting Julio Lopetegui in the Premier League. We've just recently finished with Wolverhampton and now [00:03:00] we are just, you know, waiting to see what happens next. But that's, that's my journey.

So I'm a football coach by trade. And I've, and I've gone all the way from grassroots, academy level, coaching girls, boys, women, men, and League Two, League One, Premier League. So, yeah, it's quite a diverse journey.

I think the first thing we need to do, because some of our audience will be in the US, so we need to make sure they understand, we're talking about soccer to the US, football to the rest of the world, but for those listening to us in the US, we are talking about soccer, and Edu's very modest, you know, he has coached all the way up to the highest, highest level of the sport in the United Kingdom, and we'll come on and touch on, I think, so much of your life, It fascinates me because in many ways, and we'll go right back in a minute, in many ways, you know, I've looked through my own research and [00:04:00] work, you know, as a coach, as a coach of young men, young women, boys, girls, all the way up to elite level athletes.

In many ways, so many of the traits, so much of the art form. of what you do. and I use that word deliberately. So much of the art form of what you do is so incredibly similar to the work of a teacher or an educator. And again we'll, we'll come back to that.

The Impact of Major Sporting Events

I just want to go back if I can though to I love that point you made about the 90, 1992 Barcelona Olympics, and that moment where something happened in, in your life culturally close to where you were at home that gave you a kind of, it was like an explosive moment, right?

It was like a moment of of Aspiration. And we hear so often about major sporting events being a legacy builder for young people. Um, can you tell me just a little bit, Mum? I mean, I don't want to be rude. [00:05:00] How old were you when the 1992 Olympics happened? And what in particular was it about that experience that you think lit a fire for you?

Yeah, so I was only eight. and for me, It was just that opportunity to see on TV 24 7 loads of sport. And I was like, wow, I mean, even sports that I never knew that existed, because obviously for me, it was always soccer, football, and it was always basketball, handball, but obviously all the sports that, you know, again, I had never seen on TV, I didn't know about it.

So that kind of like a curiosity to learn about all the disciplines, all the ways of training. And then obviously the opportunity to go to the stadium and see that energy, that vibe. And then obviously. Consequently, after that, people talking about you know, the, um, what these athletes do to become, you know, elite athletes, you know, their [00:06:00] education, their nutrition, their training programs, their discipline.

And it was everything that inspired me to, to kind of probably think and And believe that, Oh, wow, if I do all of this, I mean, I've got a chance to obviously become also an elite athlete, or I've got a chance to live this, this life, which seems really cool because, you know, it's full of energy, full of vibes, and in a stadium where people go and they're happy, they're smiling, there was an association of all the cool and good things that, that a young boy may, may believe to be, you know, what he wants to experience all his life, basically.

I think, I mean, what really fascinates me about that is, and we'll never know, right, but the fact that the Olympics were, if you like, in your neighborhood, uh, and meant therefore they were something you could touch, you could feel, you could sense, you could experience. In the three dimensionality away from a two dimensional screen [00:07:00] was the profound difference.

You know, if, if you just watched the Olympics and the Olympics in 1992, I don't know, had been in Paris and you'd not been able to get there. Right? Would it have had quite the set? Because what I love about what you're saying is to me something I've always been passionate about as an educator and a leader, and that is actually the sensory enveloping of experience.

It's, it's the multi dimensional, the fact that you could, you could see it, you could smell the, you know, the, the hot dogs and the food, you could see the joy on people's. Faces you could hear. I mean, I'll never forget the first time I went to Wembley Stadium as a young child. and it was 1978 . And I remember walking up those steps into the original Wembley Stadium for the first time to see the field of play, the pitch.

And. It just blew my mind, and I can't necessarily describe what it was, but it was [00:08:00] the sensory engagement. And so one of the things that I think strikes me is how important it is for our young people to have that physical, three dimensional sensory experience to help empower their dreams and their beliefs.

And

I couldn't agree more because I also recall my first time I went to a football stadium, soccer stadium, and I was only four years old. And again, I had that, I mean, walking up the stairs, I still remember like it was yesterday. I remember actually clearer than what I did last week. And it was going up the stairs and then it opens into, you know, this massive football pitch with loads of people there screaming, dancing, singing.

And it was, again, it was another kind of like, opportunity for me to realize that, wow, this is what I want in my life. This is what I, you know, this is what I dream my life to become and to be. And I agree with, you know, going into education. I mean, my, my early [00:09:00] years in a school, I mean, for me, The best days in the school would be those days where we had a chance to experiment in the science classroom, or we had a chance to go to a, you know, excursion, even if it was just half an hour down the road in a place where I had been a thousand times, but, you know, to go on the bus with my mates, you know, and have the opportunity to spend a few hours away from your school and, and kind of like, visiting this factory and listening to this guy that I had never met about, you know, how they, I don't know, they produce this thing.

And so I agree, I mean, experiencing is a fundamental part of education.

The Importance of Discipline in Achieving Excellence

one of the things that really fascinates me, about any success in any field, Um, and I think it's a really important thing to just take a step back and think about, and again, we'll evolve this through our conversation, is discipline, right?

So it's okay to have dreams. It's okay [00:10:00] to have, you know, I would guess most eight year old boys and girls who have walked into a sports arena at some point in their lives or had the joy of attending a major sporting event like an Olympics or a tennis tournament or whatever it might be, That's what I want to be.

Now obviously, and I'm not going to deny the talent necessary, again we'll unpick some of that as we go through, but where do you think you learnt the need for, and I don't mean discipline in terms of behaviour, being a good lad and being a good boy, The discipline necessary to achieve excellence in the field you've achieved, which you have done, where do you think that came from for you?

I

mean, definitely from home. I mean, definitely, obviously, um, my parents with obviously all their faults and all their virtues, and they were, they were, they are very Discipline [00:11:00] people in that respect that, you know, they, they migrate from their city to establish themselves in another city. they work 24 7, but then obviously they Establish themselves by um, I come from a family of restaurants.

So they They, they, they had their first restaurant and they had a coffee shop in addition, and I could see, and obviously I remember conversations from my parents, like, you know, my dad saying, well, look, I mean, this works because I, every day I open at 7. 30 a. m. I don't open at 8. I don't open at 7. 15. Every day is 7.

30 because the customers need to know, you know, when you're going to be open, when you're going to be closed, you have to kind of like, you know, show them. when you are available. So then obviously your regulars can come back into it. So that's a form of discipline. That's a form of, okay, consistency. Okay.

There is, you have to do this because, well, you can still work very hard. You can still be very competent, but if you open at eight, some people might get pissed off because obviously they were expecting you to [00:12:00] open at seven 30 because that's what you've been doing for the last. month and a half, for example.

So that, that sort of discipline and consistency. And then for my mom, the same. I mean, my mom would be, I mean, she's a financial advisor by trade and she would be, uh, obviously running the finances of the, of the restaurants. And again, it's like, well, I mean, if you. So if you earn 10 and you and obviously you spent nine, uh, probably we won't have a restaurant in a year time.

So, you know, that discipline of you have to save at least five, reinvest two, and then three is your profit. And so, so those things at home, they were very, very clear and very well explained from, from day one to myself and my sister. And then of course, um, again. I was very lucky to go to a very modern, very vibrant school, so my parents made a really good choice with their school, and it was this school [00:13:00] where they were, it was a new school in the city, teachers were very vibrant, very like, you know, energetic, really full of energy, and you could feel that, you could feel that from them, and again, going back to the Olympics, Thanks to the Olympics, this, the government then required that all the PE teachers had to have certain qualifications and certain, um, studies in addition to what they had been obviously, um, asking them to, to, to have in order to become a PE teacher.

And again, some of those studies were part of what. people have been doing in the Olympics. So they transfer all of that kind of like discipline, all of that. So again, my PE teachers in the school were not just go outside and do this or that. They would tell us, Oh, this is what this athlete did to get the gold medal.

He did this and this and this and this. And [00:14:00] so they broke it down in a way that obviously you were perceiving that, Oh, wow. In order to achieve that, there is a discipline. There is. There is a toll to pay. There is a sacrifice to make. There is an effort to be made. It's not just turn up and enjoy and smile.

There is much more in behind.

thank you. And I just want to go back again also to one of the things you hinted at with the teachers, you know, their energy, their, you know, this thing, one of the words that I keep coming back to in this podcast series with people is authenticity, is passion, is, you know, that difference between For example, a coach who's going through the motions, doesn't really want to be there, but they need to earn a living and the coach who rocks up every day, more passionate about what they're going to be doing with their young athletes than the athletes are themselves.

So again, [00:15:00] I'd like to pick up on that as we go along, but to frame that, I'd like to talk a little bit about your coaching experience. And as you said, and I think it'd be really interesting to explore some of the similarities and differences as we go through young versus older, successful versus those aspiring, men versus women, I think is an interesting one to look at, you know, because one of the dangers I think too often is we just assume children are like an amorphous mass, like they're all the same, whether they're You know, and, and teenagers are all the same, and boys and girls are all the same in a learning environment.

So I'd like to unpick that. But before we do, you've worked in a number of different types of environment. Um, you know, I remember visiting you when you were coaching some of the youth squads at Crystal Palace Football Club. Again, for those that don't know, they are, um, a really well run premiership football team.

[00:16:00] But one of the things they pride themselves in. is really pulling talent from the local community. And one of the things that struck me about what you said about discipline is you and I are both very fortunate, right? We come from homes where discipline was there for us and it was role modelled. It was role modelled in the behaviours of of our parents in the way they went about their lives.

You know, I've often looked at my own children and thought they've absorbed that mentality of working hard, getting your head down, doing what's necessary. Not necessarily because we've sat them down every day and told them to, but because they've, they've seen it. But my guess is a number of the young people, particularly the youth, players that you've coached, have not necessarily come from those same disciplines.

positive environments.

The Role of Parents in Youth Sports

Can you talk to me a little bit about, you know, obviously we're not talking about individuals, we're talking in general, [00:17:00] about some of the things you've seen and how you as a coach, as a teacher, and your team have gone about trying to help those young people develop that side of the way they see their lives.

Crystal Palace is a great example. I mean, it's a club that obviously I don't work for them anymore, but I love them. I love them and I had a great experience there. They are very, very good at exactly what you are referring. Helping local community, helping the local players, the local athletes, if you like.

And yeah, there were loads of cases where there were players that came from backgrounds where unfortunately, um, they didn't have that, they didn't have that discipline, they didn't have that support, they didn't, for whatever reason, and, and by the way, just to say, most of the times it was, it's not to blame the parents, because probably the parents also found themselves in that scenario for their own, obviously, uh, So it's not about, you know, uh, trying to say that [00:18:00] those parents were not, um, obviously, uh, good people or good role models.

It's just that, you know, unfortunately they were also in, in, in a life where probably, you know, choices were made for them. when it came to, when those lads came into, into the environment, I remember one specific, which I obviously I won't say the name, but I remember one specific player We had to sat him down and say, listen, I mean, without certain degree of discipline and without obviously your consistency, your talent won't shine.

You won't have a chance to get to the premiership. You won't have a chance to succeed. You won't have a chance to unlock your potential and, and reach your dreams. Not because you don't have the gift and the talent, because in that respect, you've got abundance. It's because you don't have, obviously, what it takes to become a elite athlete.

And there is a difference between an elite athlete and a very, very good athlete. You know, and then obviously what we started [00:19:00] to do with him was. In his education, in his lessons within the club, because we were fortunate enough that we could host some of his education in the club, we started to then invite him to chats with the under 18s, the under 23s, so the bigger squads.

And then he found those role models that couldn't Couldn't find at home or couldn't find in his local school through his peers in all the age groups and those all the age groups, those lads kind of like help him a lot. And sometimes things are sometimes as an educator or as a coach in that moment, you have to also accept the help might not come from you.

You might not be that person that inspires that child because he might not have the capacity to listen to you. Because he doesn't obviously interact with you in the same manner that he would with a peer. So with this [00:20:00] mentoring program that we started, we found that those lads would listen to their peers.

They would then find it inspirational and they would then start to ask questions and have that curiosity to kind of like, give me more. And that was the breaking point. So the breaking point with this specific lad, when he started that mentoring program with some of the under 18s and 23s players themselves, was that he then saw how relevant what we were saying was.

It is, as such. And so, because it's that, that expression of obviously you can take a horse to water, but not make it drink. that is very, very relevant. And it is very true. Because we had to spend amount of time trying to teach him, give him workshops, uh, encourage him to read this, watch this documentary, do this, do that.

And it was only when He then mingled with these other lads, and [00:21:00] these other lads said, Well, no, no, actually, you have to do this and this, and I do this and this, and I go to bed at this time, and I wake up at this time, and I do this and I do that. When he went like, oh, wow, maybe, you know, maybe I have to start doing my own research.

And it's when he had that appetite to learn, and he had that appetite to open that door. to explore when then we had an opportunity then to, the rest of it just followed. And then he, then he was the one asking for that documentary series. He was the one asking for that paper. He was the one, obviously now I'm summarizing probably a work of a year, right?

And loads of disappointment and days where, you know, he would misbehave. Days where we thought that we, you know, it was within period of time with all the ups and downs and the lows and the highs. We did manage and I think it was that mentoring program and it was that, you know, learning from his peers and, and actually it also favor his peers because the under 18s and 23s, I felt that [00:22:00] they became more authentic as well themselves, because they saw that where they were doing was also inspiring all the people, and then they became a bit more kind of like, oh, wow.

So when I finish my career as a footballer, is there anything else that I would like to do? And actually one of them thought, well, yeah, maybe I can create an association to help my local community. And there is a guy who's actually started, to do some sort of local community work, thanks to that mentoring program.

there's so much richness in what you've just been talking about. So many things to pick out. I think the first thing is that idea that just because you're the coach, the boss, the, the teacher, the leader. You know, one of those things I think is so powerful and refreshing about that reflection is that you don't have to have the answer and the leadership doesn't have to come directly [00:23:00] from you, and I think it's probably a very reassuring thing for people in education, actually in any sphere of leadership to understand.

it isn't their responsibility to always be the answer and actually, you know, to take a step back. I also think what you said about role models is so important because so often, you know, let's say, and I don't know that lad, let's say that lad was 16, right? and there you are, with all due respect, Edu, fully sorted, man in his 30s, incredible CV behind him, all the wisdom that comes with living.

life through the world, you know, very difficult for that young lad to identify with you, you know, very difficult for that young lad to go, oh yeah, he would totally understand my life and my background and what makes me tick. But that idea of using mentors who are More connected, more directly of the same generation, [00:24:00] more directly of the same background, who are maybe only a year or two or three years further down the line, making sure that those young people have accessible role models, I think is is incredibly interesting.

But I just, I want to go back and pick up on two things again that you talked about, slightly different. The first is this thing around parents, which fascinates me. because one of the things, and I've seen this not from my time with you, but I remember years ago, seeing some stuff at a Premier League club I was working with, and one player in particular, the head coach, so by now, this guy had already been a first team player, he'd been at one of the top clubs in the country, and actually had been loaned because the top club, this lad who had been identified as probably no more than a year away from playing full international football, um, had been loaned out because the management team at that club, a really [00:25:00] elite club, had said this kid at the moment is unmanageable, right?

And then, he arrived at a club I was working with and the head coach said to me, watch this. Yeah. And they were in a, an open, um, training session and one of the coaching staff went up to this guy and was obviously giving him some advice, some, you know, maybe some positional, uh, positional discussion or, or what have you.

And this lad just locked up. You could see it in his, his body. It just completely like froze, you know, it was like. immediate fight or flight. You could see it in him. Um, and then the head coach said, no, no, no, keep watching. The session's about to come to an end. And as soon as the session came to an end, I noticed this player's father, he was the only father on the training ground, came barreling down the hill onto the field and started shouting and swearing at this guy.[00:26:00]

And the head coach turned around to me, said, Richard, he's not the problem. He is. And the reason he's the problem is because this kid has throughout his life experienced any form of coaching as a threat, as anger, as, um, an insult, as a negative. And one of the things I wanted to know is, what did you do for the parents of the players you've worked with?

Did you, did you at any stage in your career work directly with parents or carers to try and help them understand how best to support their, their young players?

Yes, yes, great question and it's a great and actually it's a very, um, controversial, put it this way, uh, conversation within football, uh, not soccer, and within obviously our academies, which just for those listeners that they don't know, academies are obviously The, school of football, uh, that belong to a Premier League club or a championship club, a big club.

So, [00:27:00] all the big clubs in, in the UK, in Europe, have to have a, like, a school of football where obviously children aged 7 to 18, 20, go to obviously do the, Football, uh, lessons and, uh, and play their games to then obviously, uh, go up the ranks eventually to the first team. so yes. Um, during my time as a head of coaching and, and, and doing my time as, um, as an assistant of academy manager in those two roles where.

We're more directly to involve to management on and one of those were obviously one of those ideas was to manage parents. There are a few things to say here and I'm going to try to explain as good as I can and as quick as I can. there is also a problem when certain coaches are already feeling threatened by the questions of parents.

So it's also very important to say that. those children that you are coaching [00:28:00] are obviously the children of those parents. And so it's important to get those parents involved in the process. So for me, obviously this is my personal opinion, shutting down, parents, not allowing them to watch training, not allowing them to be part of the process, um, putting loads of barriers and restrictions doesn't help either.

So you need to obviously kind of like have a negotiation strategy where you, you set up the boundaries, uh, you set up the limits, but you also do it with kindness and with empathy and with love, because ultimately you also need the parents. to kind of like help the child and help the child's process. So when they come, when that child comes into your football club, works with you for a couple of hours, but then goes back home and everything can be undone.

If obviously at home, they don't follow through the same process, the same procedures, the same mindset. So [00:29:00] what we did was we created workshops. to our parents in, in, in our football clubs. So parents could come to the workshop. The psychologist, the welfare officer, the education officer, the coach would implement those workshops, would teach the parents.

But not teach the parents from a point of view of we are telling you what to do, we are teaching you what you don't know, but more as in this is what we do, this is why we do it, and this is how we do it. And so, when there was unknown, When there was information, when they were not left in limbo, when they had the information, they started, we felt that they started to be part of the process.

And when they started to be part of the process because they knew the why, the how, the what, the where, when they knew everything, then they relax. And then there was an open dialogue between coach, [00:30:00] parents and children. And then it came the. important step of setting up the boundaries. When the child is with us, this is your role.

When the child is not with us, obviously, this is your, or your ideal role to support your child in his football or her football career, but obviously it's your child. And so in a way, basically, just to sum it up, we inform, we open up the boundaries, we empower them, we welcome them, and then we kind of like set up roles, and then that clarity, I think, was the key factor, um, to have a much healthier relationship, and to avoid those situations that you've just described.

Of course Those situations kind of still happen and they did happen, but we felt that there was an empowerment and there was an open dialogue and there was a [00:31:00] communication. And then the benefit was for the children, of course, because the adults understood that. Okay. This football coach is not a threat.

I'm all of a sudden not the, you know, old guy that, disciplines at home and he's the cool, vibrant dude that, you know, he's got a friendship with my lad. I want that friendship. And so also the coach needs to understand that ultimately, You also need to reinforce the figure of, those at home to, to, to make sure that, you know, that they, they, they navigate in a much happier, life at home.

So that's, that's what we, what we did. And again, ups and, you know, and lows and highs and downs and, and cases where, oh my God, I mean, we didn't manage to obviously help this kid and this family. Of course, there's always, I'm not trying to portray like it was all amazing. I think that route was definitely a, a, a much healthier and positive route.

think. So, sorry, I think there are a number of things you say [00:32:00] again, really important one is transparency. I think, you know, so much of the fear and friction and aggression between different parties, particularly different parties that have responsibility for the same young person can often come from the unknown.

from what they. think so the imagined rather and and so breaking down those rules becomes hugely important which leads to the vital part of communication. I also think what's really interesting is sometimes the anxiety of coaches in terms of you know not feeling undermined it's a two way thing which I I also think is absolutely is fascinating I want to move on to to my next thought really, um, which is dealing with disappointment, going all the way back to your own career as a footballer and then that realization obviously that I've got to the [00:33:00] level I can get to, then, you know, putting that forward to your time as a coach because the reality, the hard reality for elite sport, is that very few of the young players you work with will ever achieve, if you like, their ultimate ambition, which is to play for their country, to play in an elite league somewhere in the world.

and even on a daily basis, you know, a guy might go out on, or a girl might go out onto the field of play and have a really poor game. for whatever reason, they might just have a really off day, how do you work with young people to help them see disappointment as not the end of their life, the end of the journey?

And like, for you, you, you recalibrated and went, okay, well, I'm never going to play at the highest level. But I could coach at the highest level. How do you go about that with young people? Because so much of learning and [00:34:00] growing is actually how to deal with disappointment and reframe it.

And it's a very difficult process.

But I think it's fundamental. And I think it's like, kind of like, mindset. So seeing things from a completely different angle. So. Embracing that, what people see as failure or what people see as mistake is actually part of the process, which will help you eventually. Either in that same state or in something else that you may pursue.

So like, for example, my case, I saw that I couldn't reach Premier League level as a football player, I saw that I could get up to League 2 or so. And then, but then I thought, well, maybe I'd rather, you know, coaching and then obviously I pursued something else. But in the process, there was a lot of disappointment, a lot of anger, a lot of frustration, a lot of like, you know, not feeling worth it.

So, lack of self esteem, motivation, there was all of that. And I think what helped me in that moment was to see it as a [00:35:00] process. See that life is full of that. And that is a fundamental part of your development as a person. And so that's what we try to do with our players. To understand that that perceived failure in that moment is actually the first step to something great.

I think society doesn't do very well with that. I think, uh, we've gone now to both extremes in my opinion. Again, this is just my opinion. We've got to believe in those people that believe that, Oh no, look, you know what? Um, doesn't matter if you win or you lose. The important bit is just to take part.

It's just to be there. Or, the other extreme of, if you don't win and you come second, you are not, you are not worth it and I believe in the middle, well it's not just about taking part, it's not just about being there and being, you know, part of the picture, [00:36:00] because otherwise then where is your, you know, where is your ambition to do, to thrive, to do well, to, to improve yourself, to, you know, to kind of have that desire to, to better yourself and those around you, but obviously, It's not about comparing yourself.

It's not about believing that, you know, if you don't win, then as you came second or third, in comparison to the one who came first, you are not good enough. So I think that's the middle. And so that's the process of, for me, teaching those young adults, those boys and girls, to kind of like, understand that sometimes failure is part of the process.

And that those things, those behaviors and those, moments in life don't define themselves. What defines yourself is how you, how you go about with what happens. So by coming first doesn't mean [00:37:00] that all of a sudden you are like amazing and the best in the world and untouchable. And by not winning doesn't mean that you are not good enough and you are not worth it.

So making sure that you detach yourself. from all of those experiences, and you don't let the experience define yourself. So I don't feel now more worth it, more intelligent or better because I've had the opportunity to work in the Premier League than 10 years ago when I was coaching under 10s. For me, my moral compass is always about how I treat others, how I relate to people, and whether when I go to bed, I'm like, okay, you know, I've lived my life pretty much in accordance to my values.

And so that's, that's, that's also an important bit, um, in terms of education in my, in my belief that, you know, it's important now, how do we get that balance? Wow. Sometimes it's difficult, but I think there's a lot of communication to the children, a lot of [00:38:00] sit down, a lot of like role model, a lot of like, um, trying to teach them that, you know, whatever happens in the life, it's not a definition of who you, who they are.

It's just what's happening in that moment. But again, probably will be also a question for you as, as, as obviously as a, as a master of education, whether, whether you are richer sometimes. In, in, in that same limbo that I find myself where I think society now it's, it's, it just goes into extremes. it just take part and it's like, no, listen, it's not about taking part.

It's, it's about, but it's not about winning that to win it, it's about going down and better yourself and improve yourself. And, and don't be happy if you didn't do better than the other day, but don't kill yourself either. It's like that, that kind of like, because otherwise we're going to have a society as well, where.

It doesn't matter, you know what I mean? And then, who are going to be the great inventors of this life? Who are going to be the great entrepreneurs? Who are going to be the great scientists, the great [00:39:00] teachers, the great coaches, the great athletes, if people don't thrive to obviously better themselves?

Obviously, how are we going to all keep sane and healthy, you know, if we don't obviously show compassion and empathy to ourselves. And if we don't, obviously kill ourselves in the process, because it's only good if you win. So that's that, that balance is, is, is, I think, for me, the key factor.

I think, I think, again, incredibly astute, Edu, pardon me.

And one of the things I often talk about is the fact that you only ever learn something new from the point of a mistake or the realisation you don't know something or can't do something. And of course, you're never going to make a mistake if you don't push yourself to your limit. And actually part of the journey for me, the continuous part of improvement, is that point about you have to push yourself to the limit, because if you stay within your limit, you're never going to grow and develop.

So, as a 17, 18 year old, if you're the best player in your academy, but what you do at that point is go, right, I know how to play [00:40:00] my game, this is what I am, this is how I do it, so I don't care what you ask me to try or do, this is what I'm going to do. Those other girls or boys around you who you've been dominating on a field of play for the last four or five years are going to overtake you because they're going to keep, they're going to keep pushing themselves to their limit.

You know, when I look at some of the elite athletes I've seen or worked with or heard the stories of, they're often never the most naturally gifted, but they're the ones that are prepared to work the hardest. To overcome the adversity they feel against those that are maybe naturally more gifted. Which brings me on to, I think my last question and then we'll wrap and finish.

and the last question, really taking your journey right to, to the most recent period. and again I, I think the parallel here for me within education or in business is If you get to the highest level, you end up inevitably leading or managing [00:41:00] elite people, like, at the absolute pinnacle of their game.

The Challenges of Coaching Elite Athletes

So, if you're working at a top management consultant, you know, you are hiring the highest level graduates on the planet. Harvard, Yale, Oxford came, you know, you are The best of the best. In your most recent, professional incarnation, you have worked with the best of the best. You know, not even the 1%, the 1 percent of elite athletes in their field.

What have been the biggest challenges for you as the same way they might be for a teacher working with really high performing academic children, right, young people? What have been the greatest challenges of versus working with young people who know they've still got plenty to learn a career to climb?

What, what are the great challenges of, you know, rocking up with guys and women who have been identified as the best in their business? What are the challenges [00:42:00] of coaching those people? Well, there are many,

but just to obviously say thank you, the sense of entitlement, That's one. They, they, they, they feel because they are there, um, they know it all.

and sometimes, that's not the case. And for me on, on, on also how we define elite, which obviously links back a little bit, uh, with the previous question that for me, elite is not about.

So elite doesn't mean that you are elite because you are in an elite environment or because you've been clustered as elite because you achieve.

these marks or this or you score this amount of goals or you got a contract with the premiership because again that would be what we Say about extreme, my example of extreme earlier, you are, you are elite because you are defined by what you do, what you, you've achieved. For me, elite is that person or that environment that it's capable of constantly asking themselves the same question every day.

[00:43:00] How can we improve? How can we improve? How can we improve? How can we? That is really elite. And that, that to me is the elite person, that one that doesn't matter whether he or she worked for the biggest organizations or the Premier League or whatever in football, is they have this inner desire of how can we improve, how can we improve.

And so going back to your question now, that sense of entitlement and that sense of I don't need to improve, and then obviously it comes to a point where It goes down. So, and then obviously they have a problem now because they were defined elite by definition of what they achieved and where they were, but not by obviously that inner desire of improving.

And so now all of a sudden they're not elite anymore. because obviously, elite. environments like football, like, like the Premier League, are unforgiving. I mean, they are, they are, ruthless. And so, you know, you, for you to stay there, you have to constantly, [00:44:00] constantly improve. All the challenges, obviously, were, exquisite questioning of what you do.

Obviously, now they know, they are, they are, they, they, they understand what you're talking about. So now all of a sudden, the coach can feel threatened because this person, and so what do you do? I mean, some people shut that voice and it's like, no, no, I'm the coach. You just do what you get told. And then obviously that elite player is going to get frustrated, is going to get upset, is going to get bored in the changing room and in the training sessions, and all of a sudden is going to misbehave and not perform.

And so you have to, in my opinion, you have to let them question yourself, but you have to be very ready as a person as well. So I think those elite teachers, elite coaches, elite, have to be very assertive. They have to understand that, oh wow, I mean, when I'm dealing with elite. children in school or elite athletes in, [00:45:00] in a Premier League club, I have to be prepared to be questioned every, every morning about what I do, about my methods, about why we did that, why didn't we do the other thing?

Oh, someone else in this elite environment do that. Why don't we do it ourselves? And so you need to know your method. You need to know your methodology. You need to know your whys. You need to know your hows. You need to know your whats. And also you need to have that humility to say, well, show me. I mean, maybe there is something there that we can incorporate in the method.

Maybe there is something that, you know, I can learn from you. So it becomes also very linear, like, like, you know, you have to also embrace that. So again, That's if you don't do that as a coach, then you have a bigger challenges because now you're dealing with misbehavior and you're dealing with frustration, you're dealing with anger, you're dealing with people who are going to try to throw grenades in the changing room every morning, because they don't feel listened, because they don't feel, um, obviously empowered.

[00:46:00] So those are the challenges also that kind of like another challenges. inner desire to win. I mean, which obviously that's amazing. But again, when that doesn't happen, and sometimes in the elite, you might lose because of very small margins. Even when you had the best game plan, when you did everything by the book, when you contemplated A, B, C, D, Z option in everything, you still How to kind of like, you know, manage that and say, and go back into training with the right mentality, the right mindset and the positive vibes to make sure that you capitalize from that and you get yourself in the best stage to win the next game.

Whatever you do doesn't mean you're going to win it. It means that you've got a better chance to win it. And so also kind of like that mood swing, how to, how you can, manage the room. And for me, the [00:47:00] biggest, uh, you know, I'm, I'm very, very lucky to work with a manager who, you know, is a source of inspiration for me.

And I'm learning a lot and I don't mind sharing the name Julian Lopetegui. And I think again, for me, what he's very good at is. Start winning the next game, the day we lost the previous game. And it's by how you manage. Because elite athletes can be also very, very self critic. And they can be very, very And obviously there is a degree of perfectionism.

At times, of like hint their performance and their development. But again You also need to be empathetic with it because you can, there are certain people that get very critic about it and it's like, Oh, well, perfectionism might become a problem. And it's like, well, I don't think so. I think the problem is how you see it and how you behave around it and how obviously you let things affect you.

That is the [00:48:00] problem. So your behavior is your mindset and your views around it. But the pure. Desire to better yourself, to try to do it as best as you can. That's what, you know, those people in that 1 percent share. And that's why they are there. Uh, because they do have that inner desire, but obviously for you is how you obviously wrap it up.

So it doesn't affect their mindsets.

I think two things really stand out for me in that answer. One is going back to something that seems to have been a recurring theme through our conversation, which is role models. And actually having a coach and a head coach who is a role model to that behavior. And by that, I mean, you know, a head coach and a coach that's prepared to be challenged.

And, you know, for people who don't know, look up Julen Lapategi. He is, You know, this guy is a legend, and you use that word rarely, but he is a legend. for somebody like him to be comfortable about [00:49:00] being questioned, about being challenged, is, is role modeling.

And the other thing you talked about, which I think you have, In absolute abundance, Edu, as does Julen and the people who reach the pinnacle of what you do, is a real deep emotional intelligence and a sophistication about understanding the individuals you're coaching, not just the team and each component part and knowing which of those players is going to react a certain way to a defeat or a victory or a coaching session.

Or, you know, whether it, they need confrontation, whether they need rules, less rules, whether they need pushing, pulling back on, you know, you know which of those players are going to be overly critical and therefore how to manage them. So to me, it's that commitment to emotional intelligence, to role modeling, and to knowing that the component parts of your teams are individuals.

Um, I have [00:50:00] taken up so much of your time and, Honestly, it, I, I hope listeners have found this as stimulating as I have because, and what I really hope is people see the parallels. We started off talking about that. before we close out, how can, if people want to know more about you, your work, um, and, and also, you know, the other stuff you're developing in response to football, how best can they connect with you and find out more about what you do?

Definitely, I mean, I have, uh, social, so if they want to, um, Edu Experiences is, is what is my, in, in Instagram. But the best thing to do, actually, is just drop me an email. I mean, so edurubio13, in numbers, 13, at hotmail. com. And I will, you know, I will definitely link with people. I will definitely, you know, mingle.

I'm happy to, obviously, you know. Also. Receive some feedback about, you know, how can I improve myself? How can I improve my views? And I think it's, it's, it's very important to, to have this dialogue [00:51:00] because ultimately, I mean, and that's why obviously I wanted to have this, this, um, podcast with you.

And that's why, you know, not just because I love you to bits and I wanted to be part of it and I respect a lot what you do and I admire your work, but also because. I think the intention of this podcast and your intention and obviously my intention as a consequence is to kind of like improve the education, help children, help parents out there, help society, by making sure that, you know, we think about all these things.

Um, and I think it's important this dialogue to kind of like, as you said, stimulate some thinking, stimulate some questions and from there finding better

answers. Amazing. Thank you so much, Edu, and thank you all for joining us. If you'd like to find out more, please check out my website richardgerver. com and subscribe to this podcast so that you don't miss any future episodes.

So, from me, from [00:52:00] Edu, until next time, here's to the future.